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Hessvillian

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2005 :  17:43:40  Show Profile  Visit Hessvillian's Homepage  Send Hessvillian an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Is anyone on this board actually from hammond?

I grew up there all my life and attended harding k-5.

I actually have 2 friends that live on Cleveland St. one on either side of his house, and one is almost directly across the street.



HMD IND - My Roots.

UncleCarl

2 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2005 :  13:57:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not from Hammond, but I might as well be considering how often I'm there-- southeast Chicago about a half-mile from the Indiana line.
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2005 :  16:31:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm happy just to be able to cruise Cleveland street now and then.
I live in Indy and travel all over the midwest.

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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a bumpus and a Shep fan

1 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2005 :  05:27:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi! :) I have a semi-interesting factoid:

My grandpa is the Delbert of The Grand Passion Play, Wanda Hickey..., and In God We Trust... He grew up on Cleveland Street, attended Harding, and his family raised hounds, though not as many as the 785 smelly ones in the movie. :) A Christmas Story is a family favorite, and I adore Jean's books!

Just thought I'd share. Thanks for reading. :)
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2005 :  00:07:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did your family ever take any photos of those years which might be shared with Jim Clavin for the website??

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  00:52:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
YES, I grew up in Hammond, about 5 or 6 blocks north and west of Shep's house! I passed his house on the way to Harding School, every day ... starting KG in 1954, until I finished 8th grade at the beginning of 1963.

For more info, please look up my 3 Guestbook posts. I describe the old wooden "portable" Harding that is the one Shep must have attended. And the ORIGINAL Flick's, which the good Mr Clavin, Shep lover though he is, misidentifies. The photo he posted is actually a photo of Dick's Grocery, across the street from Flick's.

Anyone out there from the Harding class of '63?
Or Morton H.S. class of '66?





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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  01:57:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hurray! I see Mr Clavin has corrected his info on Flick's original location! Thanks!
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  21:17:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill..Since you are a local, perhaps you can tell us where "George's Pinbowlerama" was located ??(It was the bowling alley very nearby where Schwartz and Shep were pinboys.)
The giant ice cream cone was also nearby..
Shep named several of the local businesses in his episode called "Pinboy"..

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2005 :  02:23:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by m10bob
Bill..Since you are a local, perhaps you can tell us where "George's Pinbowlerama" was located ??(It was the bowling alley very nearby where Schwartz and Shep were pinboys.)The giant ice cream cone was also nearby..
Shep named several of the local businesses in his episode called "Pinboy"..
In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk


Sorry, afraid I can't. There was (and still is) a large bowling alley, Kenwood Lanes, at the intersection of Kennedy Avenue and Kenwood Street. This is just 2 blocks north of Cleveland Street, and 1 block to the west of Shep's house. However, it dates from the early 1950s, or perhaps the late 40s. I suppose it's possible an older bowling alley stood on the site, originally.

No large ice cream cone nearby.

In fact, the geography as presented in the stories can be misleading. You'd seldom suspect how far apart are the west side of town (downtown/Goldblatt's on Hohman Avenue/Hammond High School) and the east side of town (Hessville). There was no High School on the east side of town back then (I think the original Morton H.S. was built around 1938), and Hammond High is at least 4 miles from Shep's house. Between the two sides of town are junkyards, industrial areas, even some prairie; and in the 50s and 60s at least you never saw people walking from one side of town to the other. I recall that before going out with Josephine Cowznofski, the narrator did hitch a ride to Hammond High, as well he might!

The site of the ice cream war ("A Fistful of Fig Newtons"), and the park where the narrator and his pals drank "water" from a pipe, only to discover that it was river water, are near Hammond High --again, 4 miles from Shep's house.

It IS true that the Calumet River has caught fire, on occasion!



Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2005 :  03:58:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, your knowledge of the area is great, and is apparently matched by your knowledge of Shep story details as well.
I believe you could guesstimate the locations of certain of the local businesses..
I am trying to acquire a city directory from those days which will shed complete light on these things, but they must be rare. The local library has copies, but one must actually go there to look thru them. I live in Indy and only get there (maybe) once a month.
BTW, his story "The pinboy" mentions maybe 5 or 6 of the local businesses, (including a candy shop), and the Bumpus story mentions the local grocery as being "half a block away".(I take this to mean the same building as the original Flick's Tap is in, which as you know takes up that block and is "l" shaped, and around the corner from his house.
The last time I cruised Kennedy, I must have counted at least 8 bars calling themselves "Tap"this or that, just from the light to the hill at the tracks on the northside,(nearer to your home apparently)..It must have been a popular term in Hammond..
*****I just read your notes on the neighborhood in the guest book, and am going to locate these spots on my next visit..(Particularly interested in where you have Flicks' Tap)..Looks like I was right about the old grocery. Thank you....
In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk

Edited by - m10bob on 10/23/2005 04:16:52
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2005 :  21:52:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, I'm puzzled by your reference to "the same building as the original Flick's Tap was in." Perhaps you mean the building Mr Clavin misidentified, earlier (but has recently corrected) it was actually the building Dick's Grocery was in. See my Guestbook comments. Flick's tap was across the street from it, fairly small, and housed no other business.

There was no grocery store half a block from Shep's house. The whole area was almost entirely residential. The only stores were on Kennedy Avenue, and (in far fewer number) on 165th Street (probably just one or two mom-and-pop stores on the latter). Dick's Grocery was one long block away.

I think Shep probably made up most of his names.

Since you're interested, I'll gladly e-mail you (and anyone else who asks) my diagram of just what was on Kennedy Avenue, in the 1950s and 60s. (Though I made the diagram for reasons unrelated to Shep. I'll highlight buildings that clearly date from after Shep's time, in blue.)

I'll also send you a map.

There have been changes. I gather from the online Yellow Pages that they built a Post Office on the huge vacant tract on the southwest corner of Kennedy and 165th Street. And the overpass on Kennedy Avenue just north of Mabel's Dinner/the current Flick's Tavern most certainly was NOT there, in my time (much less Shep's)! It would have been regarded as a SISSY idea. You waited for the trains to go by, like everyone else.

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2005 :  22:18:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Bucko

Hello, I'm puzzled by your reference to "the same building as the original Flick's Tap was in." Perhaps you mean the building Mr Clavin misidentified, earlier (but has recently corrected) it was actually the building Dick's Grocery was in. See my Guestbook comments. Flick's tap was across the street from it, fairly small, and housed no other business.

There was no grocery store half a block from Shep's house. The whole area was almost entirely residential. The only stores were on Kennedy Avenue, and (in far fewer number) on 165th Street (probably just one or two mom-and-pop stores on the latter). Dick's Grocery was one long block away.

I think Shep probably made up most of his names.

Since you're interested, I'll gladly e-mail you (and anyone else who asks) my diagram of just what was on Kennedy Avenue, in the 1950s and 60s. (Though I made the diagram for reasons unrelated to Shep. I'll highlight buildings that clearly date from after Shep's time, in blue.)

I'll also send you a map.

There have been changes. I gather from the online Yellow Pages that they built a Post Office on the huge vacant tract on the southwest corner of Kennedy and 165th Street. And the overpass on Kennedy Avenue just north of Mabel's Dinner/the current Flick's Tavern most certainly was NOT there, in my time (much less Shep's)! It would have been regarded as a SISSY idea. You waited for the trains to go by, like everyone else.

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63


Yeah Bill, when I surmised I had the correct building for the grocery, (also known as "Oschenslaggers" in the 1930's), I was of course referring to that brick tudor on the northeast corner which extends over to the angled street running right to "5 points"..
I would love copies of your maps,etc..
BTW, what you refer to as "long blocks" are normal sized city blocks in Indy..

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2005 :  22:21:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And if the train STOPPED, for 20 minutes, while they did some switching ... that was just a normal part of life in Hammond. As normal as fighting furnaces.

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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Amy Stocky

2 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2005 :  16:26:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trains in Hammond?? Imagine that!
For over 2 years we lived on Hohman betweeen the South Shore tracks and 2 sets of frieght tracks on the other side.
It was all trains all the time!
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2005 :  02:32:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Amy Stocky

Trains in Hammond?? Imagine that!
For over 2 years we lived on Hohman betweeen the South Shore tracks and 2 sets of frieght tracks on the other side.
It was all trains all the time!

Yes, because all the lines from the east have to funnel through Hammond on their way to Chicago.

At www.hammondindiana.com they joke that anyone who robbed a bank couldn't get away, because he'd be stopped by a train.

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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momcat2000

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2005 :  12:56:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i'm from hammond, dohhs 75. moved to indy 25 years ago. do you know there is actually a club down here in indy called 'lords of the region' and what's really balsy is that they take members who grew up in merrriville, highland, hobart, munster, etc. merrillville, highland, munster, hobart and such ARE NOT THE REGION! they are just region wannabes! when i was a teenager, people from these towns were afaid to go north of the lil'cal after dark. anything south of US 30 was central indiana and anything south of lake co. was southern in. i thought the state capatol was chicago and mayor daily was govenor.when i went to purdue, everyone thought i carried a weapon when they found out i was from da region (i did but that was beside the point)
if you are not from gary, hammond, echicago, or whitting YOU ARE NOT FROM THE REGION. a highland mother would faint if her son brought home a region girl, and you were given a good talkin' to by your father.
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2006 :  01:19:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For those not in the know, "region" refers to the Calumet Region.

Though I grew up in Hammond, I didn't hear about us from "the Region" being (allegedly) tough guys until I went away to college, downstate. As far as I could tell, we got that reputation because of Gary. I heard of a gang in East Chicago, around 1960, but there were none that I knew of in Hammond. Certainly not in Hessville. No rumbles, turf wars, or switchblades.

Maybe we were tough, though, compared to those barefoot farm boys and girls downstate!

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63

Edited by - Bill Bucko on 01/07/2006 01:22:01
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2006 :  07:58:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Last night, I listened to the program labelled "Farkus", and Shep verified Bill Bucko's belief that the Warren G Harding school shep attended WAS the wooden temporary building.

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2006 :  21:09:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, yes, it could only have been the portable.

The first wing of the brick Harding wasn't built until about 1950. During the 1950s and 60s, kg through 6th grade went to the brick building, while 7th grade, 8th grade, and the gym were in the portable.

The portable was U shaped. The oldest wing was the bottom of the U. The side wings looked a few years newer, as was the gym stuck on at the end of one wing.

I'll be contacting some old classmates soon, and I'll ask if anyone has a photo of the portable. At least one still has a copy of our yearbook, so chances are good I'll be able to share a photo with all of you.

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2006 :  23:41:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is something else I completely spaced.
On the north side of that brick business bldg on Kennedy,(north end of the Tap and the grocery from the 20's and 30's), is another row of businesses which face onto the angled street,east 164th place, (running toward the 5 points near Sheps' home).
The center of these businesses includes the barber shop Shep went to as a kid, and next to it is a staircase going to the basement, where Shep sez the x-rated films were shown.
I forgot the episode in which he gives this info, but it was the one about the stag films..

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk

Edited by - m10bob on 01/09/2006 01:00:09
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2006 :  08:38:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by m10bob

... On the north side of that brick business bldg on Kennedy,(north end of the Tap and the grocery from the 20's and 30's), is another row of businesses which face onto the angled street,east 164th place, (running toward the 5 points near Sheps' home).
The center of these businesses includes the barber shop Shep went to as a kid, and next to it is a staircase going to the basement, where Shep sez the x-rated films were shown....
HUH??

Something's off.

Remember, Shep mixed fact with fiction, real geography with invented geography, quite liberally.

OK, here's what that area looked like during the 1950s through 1966 (when I went off to college):

WEST SIDE OF KENNEDY AVE. ............ EAST SIDE OF KENNEDY AVE.


used car lot ................... IBEW parking lot
======================Cleveland Street==================
barber shop ...................... tavern
small trailer court ............... 6415 Pint Size Hobbies
(electronics?) shop ............ vacant lot
======================164th Street [angles north toward Shep's]==
vacant .............................. laundry
6442 Toomey's Tap ............. vacant lot, Dick's parking lot
used car lot ....................... 6445 Dick's Grocery & Fick's
======================165th Street========================
large vacant tract .............. parking lot


OLD buildings:
the barber shop;
the tavern across from it (this was frequently remodeled. Can't recall what it was called);
The building that housed Dick's Grocery and Flick's Tap (as well as a narrow vacant shopfront on the north side);
the laundry (narrow, old, dark brick or stone, 3 stories high)

NEW buildings:
Pint Size Hobbies (dates from the 50's)


164th PLACE (the street that slants from the laundry, toward Five Points and Shep's House) was RESIDENTIAL; vacant lot, then houses on the north side; laundry, then houses on the south side. There was NO "another row of businesses."

Perhaps he meant the barber shop on the southwest corner of Kennedy and Cleveland. It was an old building of very dark stone or brick, two or three stories high. And the only barber shop in the area. There was a striped barber pole on the corner. I have a vague memory that it may have had a basement door with steps going down. An air of seediness hung over it, and it may well have been the scene of ribald merriment in Shep's time.

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2006 :  23:32:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is taking time, but I have been going to the Hammond assessors office (online) and getting the build dates of everything in the neighborhood.
Most everything aest of his block is new (since the 40's), as he describes the area east of the school as being wooded "swamp", and he has stated he left his initials in the driveway of a home on the north side of the school, (the old wooden one which is now the vacant lot nw of the current site.)I have not gotten out of my car to find that driveway yet, but if I do, a picture will follow.
Literally half of the homes west of his home, (and those west of Kennedy) were not even there in Sheps' day, most built in the late 40's and early 50's, (with some as late as the sixties.)
The assessors office has also kept seperate dates for unattached garages.
The home of Lawrence Stryker, across from Sheps' home is still standing.
This bears significance as it was the home Shep sez he first became mesmorized by radio and "decided on the spot radio was my calling".
Now...............If only we can locate that billboard Shep and Esther Jane Allberry used to hide behind,(when not under the porch.)



In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  11:44:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone. I'm new to the list and just want to jump in with a few of my memories of the area. I lived in Hessville from 1955 to 1960. I left for I.U. after graduating from Morton in 1960, and moved back to the area from 1968-1975.

My parents' first place for two or three years (1955-58) was in a crummy old two story apartment building on 165th just across from the IBEW building, next door to Cande's Pizza (after it moved from 163rd and Kennedy), and less than one half block from Flick's and Dick's. My wife grew up in the area; lived in the 2700 block of Kenwood St.; attended Harding through the eighth grade in 1955; and graduated from Morton in 1959. The building at 165th and Kennedy contained Dick's Grocery in the middle and Flick's on the corner. Also, I got my haircuts at a barber shop that was located in the rear of that same building behind Flick's and faced 165th. A small used car lot was across Kennedy on the northwest corner; which makes for the perfect setting of Flick's in "In God We Trust..." There was another bowling alley in "downtown" Hessville on Kennedy between 167th and Martha St., next to Solina's Bakery and across the street from Hessville Department Store and Vierk's Furniture. It seemed to be a much older place than the one farther north on Kennedy.

My wife attended the wooden Harding except for the last year or so when she went to the brick building across Parrish Avenue. Friends in Hessville tell me now that a new Harding is being constructed.


Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  22:24:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, that's interesting!

Being a few years younger than you, my memories of some places may not be as sharp as yours.

Bowling alley -- next to Solinas (the bakery with the wonderful smell!) -- when I walked past the bakery during my high school days, there was a gas station to the north of it and as far as I can remember, just the grocery store parking lot to the south. You have awakened a VERY vague memory, beginning to stir in me, that there may have been an old bowling alley there, earlier ... that I visited just once, around 4 years old! If so, then THAT's almost certainly the one where Shep was a pinboy. Kenwood Lanes definitely dates from the late 40s to mid 50s.

Cande's Pizza - their ad in my 1966 yearbook places them on 165th; I can't remember them being at 163rd and Kennedy. The Fruit Stand definitely stood on the nw corner (low ramshackle one-story wooden mom-and-pop store, where we bought rubber daggers, play money, Bazooka Joe bubble gum and other essential kid stuff); and a Marathon gas station on the sw. On the east side of Kennedy, they built the huge new IBEW hall and parking lot sometime in the mid- to late 50s; perhaps that's where Cande's once stood?

The building housing Dick's Grocery and Flick's Tap is a very deep building. I don't remember a barber shop or anything else further down on the southeast end of it, but that was out of my way and I probably walked that way just once.

Speaking of Martha Street: the Hanson Branch Library was dear to many kids' hearts. What a cozy place! If you'd like to see a couple of photos of it, just let me know and I can e-mail them to you. Classmates.com has posted a sketch someone drew of the interior. I've been told the building is still standing, but is now a YMCA office. Can't understand how the Hammond Public Library could abandon it. At the VERY least, their website ought to have a page commemorating it! Do you remember Mrs Pinkerton, the librarian, and the summer vacation reading club?

Bill

Oliver P Morton Class of '66

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2006 :  10:41:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're correct about the directions. The gas station was north of Solina's on the corner of 167th; and the bowling alley was just to the south between Solina's and the parking lot for the old grocery store. A friend who still lives in Hammond sent me a DVD of the Hessville area for Christmas. It shows the old Solina's building on Kennedy with the old bowling alley next to it just to the south. I bowled there often while in high school at MHS. There were just either six or eight lanes. Also, until the late 1950s, Cande's was located on the west side of Kennedy about half way between 163rd and Kenwood, not on the corner. If an alley were to split the block, it would be on the Kenwood side, right next to the building that housed the old welding shop. The building is still there, but I'm not sure what is in it now. I purchased a landsat satellite high resolution image of Hammond and am able to locate some of the old areas. I always enjoyed standing out front of the restaurant watching this little guy spinning the pizza dough.

According to its web site, IBEW Local 697 still is located at 2835 165th, just east of Kennedy. I'm not sure what local union is located around 163rd and Kennedy. Here's another interesting point: According to the Local 697 web site, "In the early 60's the (apprenticeship) school was moved above 'Flick's Tap' or 'Brothers' as it is known today. In February of 1968, a new modern school was completed...."

I never went to the old fruit stand, but my wife has told me stories about that place. She lived on Kenwood, just a little more than a block away since the middle 1940s when she was four years old. Being on the same side of Kennedy, that was the place where she and her friends did their "shopping." She lived no more than three or four blocks from Shep's old Cleveland Ave. address, but spend no time there when she was little because that was on the other side of the "big" street. However, she probably walked either Cleveland or 163rd to get to Harding -- depending on where the patrol lady was located.

The Hanson Branch was a wonderful place to spend time after school. I never was in the summer reading program, but did a lot of studying and other reading there. I would like the photos you have, and will send you privately another email address to send them to.

After a while, my folks and I moved from 165th to Marshall Ave. just behind the Dairy Queen. While a senior at Morton, I worked part time at the old Hessville Department Store. I also spent a lot of time taking pictures around town and at school for the Top Hat and the Mortonite as one of the chief photographers for the photo club. In fact, Mr. Rasmussen was one of my favorite teachers. Maybe that was because I never had him for class, just for the photo club for three years.

I spent a lot of time this past year working on the 45th year reunion of the MHS class of 1960. Because of health problems I was unable to attend, but I do have a nice color picture of the old high school that I would be happy to email to anyone. Also, I have a black and white postcard photo of the east side of Kennedy Ave. in "downtown" Hessville. It shows things such as: Peggy Ann's Cotton Shop, Readmore Gift Shop, the original Calumet National Bank branch, Carri Ann's, Mack Shoes, Hessville Dime Store, Janc Drugs, the Ace, and some other businesses in the background. Judging by the cars, the photo was taken sometime in the mid-1950s, probably before 1956.

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  00:10:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, again! Thanks for all the information!

On his satellite map, Mr Clavin should remove the marker for Kenwood Lanes, since the alley you mention, not Kenwood Lanes, must be the one Shep was a pinboy at. It's further to the south, off the picture, in the 6700 block.

I may be excused for not remembering it very well; the only time I was there, I seem to have taken my rubber Froggy the Gremlin with me. Must have been about four. What was it called?

Cande's -- On that block, I remember the welding shop on the corner, then a small building, a house set way back from the street, and the Fruit Stand. That small building must have been the former Cande's. I recall it as a real estate office. If I ever saw Cande's there, it must have made no impression ... I didn't even know what pizza was, in those days.

IBEW -- The large union hall at 6333 Kennedy, between 163rd and Cleveland, did belong to IBEW. It and its parking lot took up the entire block. I figure it must have replaced the hall on 165th that you mentioned. According to my research on the web, the hall on Kennedy is now Boilermakers Union local 374. Maybe IBEW moved from 165th, to Kennedy, then back again?

I grew up on the 2600 block of Kenwood Street. Kennedy Avenue certainly was the "big" street to us grade schoolers. In my time the Patrol Lady was always located at Cleveland Street, right in front of the old barber shop I've mentioned. It was a rite of passage when, as an older tough guy, I started ignoring the Patrol Lady and crossing at 163rd, on my way to Harding.

Omigod, I would LOVE to receive any or all of the photos you mention!!! I've already e-mailed you my photos of the wonderful old library, as well as 3 b&ws of the original Morton HS.

Mr Julian Rasmussen was my favorite teacher. I remember him fondly ... in spite of the suffocating odor of formaldehyde from all those dogfish sharks he had us dissect. In my time he was still in charge of the photo club, which his son Dave was also in. He sold me my first stereo component set, for $10, shaking his head in bewilderment when I tested it with the new Rolling Stones' "Out of Our Heads" album.

I'm really looking forward to seeing your photos.

Best wishes,

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  05:55:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"I may be excused for not remembering it very well; the only time I was there, I seem to have taken my rubber Froggy the Gremlin with me. Must have been about four. What was it called?"

According to Shep, it was called "George's Pinbowlerama" (in his day.)
Since he worked there in the early 30's, a lot of time tranpired from then to the fifties..
For this reason, I have been looking at Lake county records, as time does change things.
I'm still convinced Sheps' recollections of Hammond were more factual than fiction.
Sheps' recollections of a "swamp and forest east of the school" bear credibility according to the assessors office, as the current structures are all relatively new, (circa WW2 and after.)
While I never followed my formal education, (science, including geology), I have been able to eyeball the area and the ground does show much evidence of having been a typical "Hoosier wetland" in that area.This physical feature alone would be a perfect environ for a swamp-like habitat, (supporting the birds Shep also described in that area.).



In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk

Edited by - m10bob on 01/18/2006 06:13:06
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  20:28:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As far as I can remember, everything east of Parrish was 1950 and later construction. Aren't all the houses in that area the one story, no basement ranch style houses? Corners were cut in the construction on some of those houses. A close friend of mine had a track house on Illinois Avenue south of 165th that had 2" x 3" studs in the walls.

Candes' Pizza -- An advertisement in the 1957 Morton High School Top Hat had Candes' Pizza Villa located at 6310 Kennedy Ave.

I checked six Top Hats, but did not find a single ad for the bowling alley that was next to Solina's. However, does anyone remember the Sip and Bite "Open all Night"?

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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svea3

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  23:00:50  Show Profile  Send svea3 an ICQ Message  Click to see svea3's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hessvillian

Is anyone on this board actually from hammond?

I grew up there all my life and attended harding k-5.

I actually have 2 friends that live on Cleveland St. one on either side of his house, and one is almost directly across the street.



HMD IND - My Roots.

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svea3

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  23:06:49  Show Profile  Send svea3 an ICQ Message  Click to see svea3's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I am not only from Hessville, but my Great Grandfather's family was one of the original group. His farm was divided up for a subdivision in the sixties. We were Saxen...from Germany, not Hessians. I went to Morton all the way from Miss Jane to Mr Ruff and Mr Hayes.
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svea3

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2006 :  12:00:32  Show Profile  Send svea3 an ICQ Message  Click to see svea3's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I am trying this posting thing again. I went to OPMorton all the way from Miss Jane and her switch til 12th grade with Mr Ruff and his red tie. My brother went to Morton until 10th grade and then he had to switch to HH. He went to Northwestern and I went to Michigan State. Speaking about trains, I had forgotten all about it and then I moved to Grosse Ile around Detroit. WELL the people here THINK that they have a train problem. It is not unususual to wait for 35+ minutes.But living in the da Region made me know that it could take 60 minutes to travel from Hessville to Downtown Hammond and there was no real short cut.
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svea3

USA
223 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2006 :  14:46:52  Show Profile  Send svea3 an ICQ Message  Click to see svea3's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
NOWI have the hang of this posting stuff.
I grew up on Kennedy/173rd across from the park. Do you remember the big Christmas Tree that was assembled every year? It was accomplished by completing an under wooden structure so that the trees were placed upon such. Then the lights were put on top. There was a big discussion about how bad it was to use the XMAS instead of Christmas. Oh put the Christ back into Christmas was the cry. Things do not change. OR do you remember the telephone building being constructed?

Is there anyone here from the South end of Kennedy? My Great grandfather was known as the River Rat as he trapped and fished the Little Calumet all the time. In the old days, before refrigeration, they kept their meat in a box on the porch so they could watch and increase the needed amount of ice.
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2006 :  16:00:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
svea3...Very glad we are flushing out the locals from Hammond.
WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has been my experience that most of us Hoosiers came to Shep late, and were unaware for years of his fame on the east coast.
I urge you (and all other Hoosiers who find these forums) to explore Flicklives.com and notice the availability of his recorded programs.
I am sure if you begin a personal collection of them, you will hear MANY tales of the locals, (possibly including of your great grandfather, because he sure sounds like the man Shep has described when the gang went exploring the woods and dump near the Calumet south of Hessville.)
It is obvious Shep on occasion had to embellish to flesh out the memories, but most of his tales bear credibility when it comes to locations and names of people he knew as a kid.
Before long, we should have a pretty good picture of Sheps' neighborhood, and who knows, maybe it will be made into a cartoon map, of sorts ?
Now, last night I heard him mention (for the 2nd or 3rd time) of the candy store which was "near the Harding school".
I suspect (at this time) he is referring to a location on 165th, as he has failed to identify it with Kennedy in his other referances.
This candy store was where Shep and his friends acquired those "transfer tatoos".

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2006 :  19:37:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by m10bob

Now, last night I heard him mention (for the 2nd or 3rd time) of the candy store which was "near the Harding school".
I suspect (at this time) he is referring to a location on 165th, as he has failed to identify it with Kennedy in his other referances.
This candy store was where Shep and his friends acquired those "transfer tatoos".

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk


In the 1950s there was a small store on the NW corner of 165th and California. It still appears to be a commercial building on the satellite image. From that point to Harding was all residential on both sides of 165th.

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2006 :  22:02:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm sure the candy store must have been on 165th, too.

The whole area was residential, except for the many shops along Kennedy Avenue and the (far fewer) number along 165th.

I think I have a fairly recent photo of that shop, which was sent to me by a former classmate. I'll be glad to share it with you.

Bill
Morton HS Class of '66

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2006 :  04:49:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill, you have been a wealth of info for this area, and we appreciate the maps you have provided.
Too bad (for us) so many local businesses changed since the thirties or we would find this "detective work" a lot easier.
Then again, if we did not find Shep as interesting and important to our lives, we might not feel the need for the research.
I do not feel it excessive, nor trivial, and am confident the fans of Samuel Clemons felt the same way, in going to Hannibal.
If not for Jim Clavin, we would have never had a place to come together.
EXCELSIOR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2006 :  11:19:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 1954 Top Hat (Morton yearbook) has an ad for Hessville Meat Market, 2949 - 165th St., (at California) Ray Neff, Prop. Could this place have been there 20 or 25 years earlier???

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2006 :  16:02:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, it could have existed. Records are kept of business licensing and they are open to the public. The Hammond library can be a good source of info, and the best single book to look up names of business's or households was the Polk's city directory, which literally listed every existing (and occupied) structure in the communities they served.
I.E., they would show Shep's address of 2907 E Cleveland, with the dad's known occupation, and then would list every neighbor on the street similarly.
If a business was one of those neighbors, this would also be listed.
Shep's stories have indicated regular shopping at both a grocers AND a seperate meat market, so, yeah, it is possible.
As for the candy store, didn't his first top come from the candy store as well ?
BTW..Polk
s City Directories were generally issued every 4 years, (updated with census info when possible or building permit info,etc.), and I have verified the Hammond library DOES HAVE the Polk's City Directories for the late 20's and the thirties..
The info is so vast it cannot be posted online, and I have been trying to locate a private copy for sale for a long time.
This book alone would "solve" ALL of the "Shep Era" questions in one sitting.
The libraries copies are in the referance section, but are available for "walk-in reading" only, (cannot be checked out.)
While I have made some good contacts with the Hammond city establishment, getting any of them to go out of their way to assist me in research (by phone) even when to the advantage of the City of Hammond, has shown them to be as backward as, well, "Wrong Way Corrigan".

In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk

Edited by - m10bob on 01/20/2006 16:05:01
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2006 :  21:16:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by m10bob

Bill, you have been a wealth of info for this area, and we appreciate the maps you have provided.
I'm sure our two new members from Hessville are at least as valuable, as sources of information.

I remain convinced that Shep embroidered and invented places and people very freely.

And I find it odd that he talks so much about places four miles west of his house (e.g. the park where he and his buddies drank "water" out of a pipe, only to find it was sludge from the Calumet River) ... but not about, for instance, the huge prairie that is far closer to his house, or the miles-long Gibson freight yard. Or trains, for that matter.

Has anyone heard him mention the Hessville Library (Hanson Branch)? As others from the area agree, it was a memorable place ... with quaint stone architecture ... Not sure when it was built, but it could have been as early as the 1920s or '30s. It's still there, on Martha Street (downtown Hessville), half a block east of Kennedy Avenue ... though it's now a YMCA office building. Photos on request.

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  06:28:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Please see next entry..

Edited by - m10bob on 01/21/2006 06:37:03
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  06:34:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by m10bob

Hey Bill, don't give up yet.

" but not about, for instance, the huge prairie that is far closer to his house, or the miles-long Gibson freight yard. Or trains, for that matter."

Shep has discussed the train yards (and problems) in at least 2 episodes, (which may be downloaded from Shep Archives.)
Punch in "Trains", and also "Railroad Magazine"
He made it clear that "nobody that ever lived within a mile of those freight switching yards was ever a fan of trains".(Quote from Railroad Magazine.)
He also discussed how the tracks both north and south of his house were "infested with engineers who took great pains to block traffic and get the "Old Man" stirred up."
Shep then went into great detail to impersonate the sounds of the trains which bang against cars all night, and said the "smoke from the diesels was so thick you could cut it with a knife and use it to paint your house with."(A sure enough "embellishment")..
In one tale, he relates how a fella got out of his car and unhooked the train so cars could get by (when the engineer was not looking!)
Since I work nights as a driver, and have transferred maybe 200 episodes to CD's, I listen to 4 to 6 different air dates 5 nights a week..With maybe 50 Shep CD's in my car, I continually go thru the mix, (adding a few new air dates from my downloaded collection weekly.)
BTW, I hope Max's "teaser" at the end of this weeks' program, and Jim Clavins' "forthcoming Shep news" announcement are an indication of more Shep-related material..???


In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk



In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  13:59:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the 1950s the bowling alley at 6716 Kennedy Avenue was called Pin Bowl Recreation. It is interesting to speculate if this could have been expanded by Shep to "George's Pinbowlerama."

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  14:13:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvcogs

In the 1950s the bowling alley at 6716 Kennedy Avenue was called Pin Bowl Recreation. It is interesting to speculate if this could have been expanded by Shep to "George's Pinbowlerama."

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960



Since Shep actually worked there, we can feel pretty confident he would know the owners' name, and I'll bet records will show it is "GEORGE"!
What are the odds of another "PIN BOWL" in that neighborhood, (and what a rare name!)
As far as I am concerned, you have found yet another of Sheps' haunts..EXCELLENT..

In Hoc Agricula Conc
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  15:10:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I spent many Saturday mornings at the Pin Bowl in the late 1950s. By that time, automatic pinsetters had been installed. Here's the ad that appeared in the 1956 Morton High School yearbook, the Top Hat:

BOWL THE AUTOMATIC WAY

PIN BOWL RECREATION
6716 Kennedy Avenue
Hammond, Indiana
8 A.M.F. Automatic Pinspotters

I just couldn't remember the name of the place until I finally found the ad. Now it all comes back; we referred to the place as THE PIN BOWL.

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  17:00:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gonna have to go thru the programs Shep discussed the pinsetting job, but I'm fairly certain he mentioned how many lanes it had, and "8" sure sounds like what he said.
In one program, he specifically gave a number (for the lanes), and discussed who used the lanes on the "worst night"..
The worst night (he claimed) culminated in intense (and physical) rivalry between different departments of the steel mill.
Her in Indianapolis, our bowling alleys also automated in the fifties, but I remember a couple that still had the pin boys into the early sixties, on some of their lanes, (for the "purists",supposedly.)
One alley still exists here with smaller pins than the usual size, can't remember what they are called, but it is in an ancient neighborhood, (Irish Hill).

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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  22:26:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, Bob, thanks for the info on the trains!

Though of course Shep was DEAD wrong. I lived about 5 blocks closer to the freight yard than he did; and loved the sounds exactly the way some people love birds singing or rustling leaves: the low, soft, soothing throb of the small Diesel switchers was my favorite, rising and falling on the night air ... There was nothing harsh about it at all. Nor was the muffled clang loud enough to be jarring, when two cars coupled. The horns never woke us at night. Diesel smoke? He's got to be kidding. Standing by the tracks paralleling McCook Avenue, half a block from my house, I twice in the early '50s saw a STEAM locomotive pass by. They generated an unbelievably huge cloud ... almost half a block long! Diesels were much cleaner.

I believe I did hear the story about the motorist uncoupling the cars.

I agree that our new member wvcogs has positively identified the bowling alley. As I remember from my one visit, the ceiling was very low and the place was quite dark. Think it still did have pinboys (this was around 1954).

Am working on an expanded map of the neighborhood; will share it with people, in a week or so.

Bill

Warren G. Harding Class of '63

Edited by - Bill Bucko on 01/22/2006 00:01:46
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Bill Bucko

USA
359 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  22:50:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a nice photo taken in the '50s from the big Indianapolis Blvd. Viaduct (built 1937), looking roughly northeast, and showing just the eastern half of the IHB freight yard:

http://www.hammondindiana.com/20thcentury/time_capsule06.htm

The low white structures on the far horizon are the Shell Oil Co. tank farm, along the (flammable) Calumet River. In that general direction, about 3 miles away, lie the steel mills. My neighborhood, and Shep's several blocks further away, would be off the photo, near the top right corner. You can find numerous photos of locomotives, roundhouse, etc. by searching the internet for "Indiana Harbor Belt." And here's their homepage:

http://www.ihbrr.com/

Bill ("I like trains the way John Denver liked the Rockies") Bucko

Warren G. Harding Class of '63
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2006 :  05:54:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, Bill, I too am a railroad nut, and have belonged to the Monon Historical and Technical Society, and a few other clubs, (PRR, B&O, NYC, Mil.Rd, etc).
When dad was playing army in Korea, we lived with my grandparents near the old B&O yards in Haughville, (west Indy), and grandpa would walk me to those yards so I could wave at the freshly painted steamers at the roundhouses.
These roads were not dieselized till 1956, (except the Monon which was all diesel by 1947).
I too enjoyed hearing the trains all night, only a few short blocks away, and in fact, if Shep really disliked trains as much as he claims, why did he spend another 3 or 4 episodes speaking fondly of his rides on the trains ??
In one program, IIRC, he describes a very pleasant ride on the Super Chief to the west coast.
Since he was a pilot, he DID have other options..
As for diesels in Sheps day being smoky, well, yeah, early diesels were a LOT smokier, especially the Alco's, and NW2's, (both introduced in the 30's..)
Baldwin and Fairbanks Morse also had early entries, and these were all considered "very smoky".
In fact, one was so smoky, it was labelled "an honorary steamer" by the railroaders themselves. (I believe these were the Alco's).

In Hoc Agricula Conc
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wvcogs

USA
564 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2006 :  12:04:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ahh, the Monon... In '60 and '61 my future wife and I rode it on numerous occasions from the station in downtown Hammond to Bloomington (and back) during our first years as students at I.U. Somewhere I have some old 8mm movies shot out of the rear of the train on what I seem to remember are single tracks down close to Bloomington.

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960
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momcat2000

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2006 :  12:31:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gawd those trains! i grew up in a triangular area between 3 train yards, the one across from tech, the one around east hammond and the one that ran paralel to harrison st in south hammond. the was a spur in the alley across the street and when those trains coupled, our wood framed house would shake. i think the yard on s hammond had 14 sets of tracks you had to cross to get to the other side. the one across from tech seperated my house from hammond high 4 blocks away. if there were a back up trains out of the yard around morning rush hour, half the school would be late for class. if you got home late from a date, you could always use 'i got caught by a train' and you could never be dispuited. when we were kids, we would call to the engineers 'chalk chalk' and would toss out huge pieces of sidewalk chalk - it was great!. my grandpa worked for B+O out of blue island and would get us cases of railroad flairs - kind of like money in the bank for a kid, good for trading for anything you could want. taxis were never on time, busses were always late, and you would have to scientifically plan your route to work if you didn't want to be late. parents spread the urban rumor about this kid who lost both arms by playing too close to the train track or got caught in the cuplers while hopping a stopped train. there would of been alot of one armed kids in hammond if it were true.every few years there was always someone from hammond high who's car got stalled on a track and bairly got it started and off in the nick of time. some others weren't so lucky. there is an old nickle plate train and caboose on display across from tech high school. when i was a kid you were able to climb all over it and play 'engineer' now it's fenced in, so my kids had to hop the fence to enjoy the pleasure. the gulls were all over the grain cars, rats with wings. if you really wanted to 'pimp over' someone's house, you would buy about 5 bags of popcorn kernals and throw them on top of their roof. the roof would be covered with birds for weeks and when they left, the owners would have a new'gull poop' layered roof. the banging and coupling of trains never kept me awake, the sounds of the horns would lull you to sleep, especially in the summer where no one had air condition and the window were kept open.
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m10bob

USA
233 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2006 :  15:00:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wvcogs

Ahh, the Monon... In '60 and '61 my future wife and I rode it on numerous occasions from the station in downtown Hammond to Bloomington (and back) during our first years as students at I.U. Somewhere I have some old 8mm movies shot out of the rear of the train on what I seem to remember are single tracks down close to Bloomington.

Former Hessvillite
Morton Graduate 1960



You make a lot of local folks jealous for having actually ridden the Monon.!!
(For those who do not know, the "Monon", AKA the Chicago, Indianapolis and Louisville railroad was a strictly Hoosier Line which passed the tower at the end of Hohman Avenue.
It was the train Shep took his first train ride on as a scout.
http://www.monon.org/

http://mononrr.com/
and this last one is Hammond..Let it load !!!(best on broadband)
http://mononrr.com/mpages/days_scenes/8.html



In Hoc Agricula Conc
In Est Spittle Louk

Edited by - m10bob on 01/24/2006 06:30:26
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